The Gospels tell us that after Jesus’ death, He was hastily buried in a cave tomb owned by Joseph of Arimathea, a wealthy man who was also a member of the Sanhedrin (Mt 27:57-60; Mk 15:42-46; Lk 23:50-53; Jn 19:38-42). Only upper-middle and upper class Jews could afford a rock-hewn tomb.[1] The poor in the 1st century buried their dead in trench tombs. Trench tombs were about 5-7’ deep, and had a niche in the bottom for the bodies.[2] Bodies would be wrapped in a shroud (and sometimes placed in wood coffin) and lowered into the niche.[3] Had Joseph not buried Jesus, Jesus may have been buried in a trench tomb, or thrown into a field as the Romans were oft to do with crucified victims.
What did Jesus’ tomb look like?
Archaeological data can help us answer this question. We have discovered hundreds of cave tombs in Israel, some dating as far back as the 8th century BC up to the early 6th century BC.[4] Tombs made in this era are referred to as First Temple Period (FTP) tombs. No tombs have been discovered that date between 586 BC and the mid 2nd century BC, which corresponds to a period of time in which the Jews were either in Babylonian captivity, or under foreign rule. It was not until the mid-second century that tomb-building resumed under Hasmonean rule.[5] Tombs made between the mid-2nd century BC and AD 70 are referred to as Second Temple Period (STP) tombs. FTP and STP tombs have distinct features related to their construction and layout which allows us to distinguish tombs from the two periods.
- FTP tombs usually had a pit under the burial bench to house the bones after the flesh had decayed, or a large pit (charnel pit) to throw the bones into.[6] Rather than depositing bones into a charnel pit, bones from STP tombs were deposited into a special room called a charnel room. Beginning around 20 BC, charnel rooms were replaced with ossuaries, small limestone boxes in which the bones for several individuals could be deposited.[7]
- STP tombs have visible, parallel lines on the walls of the tomb, left by the comb-chisel that was used to hew out the rock. FTP tombs did not use comb-chisels, so the walls of FTP tombs are very smooth.
- Dual-room FTP tombs often dug their chambers side-by-side, whereas dual-room tombs from the STP dug the second chamber behind the first.
- STP generally had rectangular, low entrances.[8] The floors of the tomb were carved out of the limestone rock to lower the floor, allowing mourners to stand erect.[9] By contrast, FTP tombs did not carve out the floor.
- STP tombs were lined on all but the entrance side by low-lying benches (they were what remained after the floor had been carved out).[10] They typically had loculi carved into the walls: long niches cut vertically into the walls for individual burials, measuring approximately 6’ deep and 1.5’ wide.[11] Many have shelf-like burial niches in the walls measuring 6’ long and 2’ high (called arcosolia if the top of the niche is arched and quadrosolia if it is straight).[12] By contrast, FTP tombs only contained benches on which to lay the deceased.
The following chart summarizes the differences:
|
|
FTP tombs |
STP tombs |
| Bones kept in… | Charnel pits | Charnel room or ossuaries |
| Construction | Smooth walls, floors not carved out | Comb marks on the walls, floors carved out |
| Layout | Rooms side-by-side | One room behind the other |
| Burial spots | Benches | Low-lying benches, loculi, arcosolia/quadrosolia |
So what did Jesus’ tomb look like? From the Biblical data we know it must have had a relatively small entrance room because Mary could see where Jesus’ body had been laid from outside the tomb (Mk 15:47; Jn 20:1). This does not necessarily imply that it was a single-room tomb, however, as some suggest. What it does imply is that Jesus was buried on a bench rather than in a loculus or an arcosolia/quadrosolia. If he had been buried in a loculus, it would have been very difficult to see the location from outside the tomb as these were further removed from the tomb opening. It is also unlikely that he was laid in an arcosolia/quadrosolia because the Bible depicts angels sitting at the head and feet of where Jesus had been laid (Jn 20:12). Arcosolia and quadrosolia were only about 2’ high, making it virtually impossible for the angels to sit within the space.[13] Archaeological data also rules this out as a viable option. Arcosolia and quadrosolia never appear in one-room tombs, and we have hundreds of examples of one-room tombs and tombs with arcosolia/quadrosolia. They only appear in multiple-room tombs, and rarely appear in the entrance corridor itself (only two tombs have arcosolia in the entrance corridor).[14] Jesus was probably laid on a burial bench, which would be easily visible from outside the tomb.
The Stone that Sealed the Tomb
The English translations of the Synoptic Gospels speak of the stone being “rolled” against and from the tomb entrance (Mt 27:60; 28:2; Mk 15:46; 16:3-4; Lk 24:2).[15] This would lead us to believe that the stone was a round, rolling stone. Archaeological evidence, however, suggests that it probably was not a rolling stone. Out of the more than 900 tombs from the STP, only four used rolling stones to cover the entrance:
- The Herod Family Tomb (4.5’ tall)
- Tombs of the Kings (aka Tomb of Queen Helen of Adiabene)
- A funery monument adjacent to the Herod Family Tomb
- A tomb in the KidronValley[16]
All other tombs (99%) from the STP used square blocking stones that are designed to fit snugly into the opening like a cork in a bottle (smaller on the inside and larger on the outside).[17] Given the fact that only the most exotic tombs used rolling stones, and given the fact that so few tombs used rolling stones in the STP, it stands to reason that Jesus’ tomb probably sealed with a square stone, not a rolling stone. So what about the Gospel accounts which speak of the stone being “rolled” away? The Greek word kulio may also refer to dislodging or moving, so there need not be any contradiction.[18]
Do We Know the Location of Jesus’ tomb?
The traditional site of the tomb is under the Holy Sepulchre Church in Jerusalem. An alternative site proposed in the late 19th century is the Garden Tomb, also in Jerusalem. Which of these, if either, has a better claim to be the burial spot of Jesus? Let us look first at the Garden Tomb.
The Garden Tomb was discovered in 1867. It appears to have been dug in the 8th or 7th century BC.[19] It was re-used in the 5th through 7th centuries AD.[20] We know it was hewn in the FTP for the following reasons:
- All other tombs in the area are from the FTP. During the STP Jews hewed their tombs farther north.
- STP tombs have visible, parallel lines on the walls of the tomb, left by the comb-chisel that was used to hew out the rock. FTP tombs did not use comb-chisels, so the walls of FTP tombs are very smooth. The Garden Tomb lacks any comb marks, and thus it stands to reason it was built during the FTP.
- The two chambers of the Garden Tomb are side-by-side, a distinctive of FTP tombs. STP tombs dug the second chamber behind the first.
- FTP tombs only contained benches on which to lay the deceased, whereas STP tombs contained low-lying benches, loculi, and arcosolia/quadrosolia. The original layout of the Garden Tomb lacks loculi and arcosolia/quadrosolia. It only contained burial benches lining the three walls opposite the entrance of the first chamber.[21]
According to the Gospels Jesus was buried in a new tomb (Mt 27:60; Lk 23:53; Jn 19:41). If the Garden Tomb was hewn in the FTP, it cannot be said to be “new” by any stretch of the imagination, and thus the Garden Tomb is highly unlikely to be the tomb Jesus was buried in.
What about the Church of the Holy Sepulchre? This tomb possessed both loculi (two of them) and arcosolia, although centuries of pilgrims chipping away at the tomb for relics left it defaced.[22] The entire tomb is now covered by later masonry.[23] It is one of four tombs found in the area, indicative of the fact that this was once a much larger burial site.
The site was originally a quarry. In the first century BC it was turned into a garden, and tombs were dug in the rock.[24] In AD 132 Hadrian destroyed what remained of Jerusalem after a rebellion led by Rabbi Akivah and Bar Kokhba. Hadrian built a retaining wall that encompassed the hill traditionally identified as Golgotha, as well as the tombs, and filled it in with dirt to create a level, raised platform on which to build a temple to Aphrodite.[25] Constantinte razed Hadrian’s temple to the ground. The Christians removed the fill to expose the land and tombs below.[26] Constantine built a rotunda around the traditional site of Jesus’ tomb, and a bascilica near that (the rotunda and bascilica were separated by the hill of Golgotha).[27] This church was destroyed by El Khakim, the Caliph of Cairo, in AD 1009.[28] The rotunda was rebuilt by Emperor Constantine IX Monomachus between AD 1042-1048.[29] In place of a church, he built three groups of chapels. Crusaders rebuilt the church in the 12th century, enclosing the hill of Golgotha in the church for the first time (in a chapel within the church).[30]
Could this have marked the spot of Jesus’ tomb? The fact that there was always a Christian community living in Jerusalem, and the fact that there was an unbroken succession of Christian bishops living in Rome means the Christian community’s memory of the site of Jesus’ burial may be legitimate.[31] Indeed, the fact that Hadrian built a temple over the site made it easier to remember.
Another point in its favor is its location. While in the 4th century the spot was enclosed within the city walls, archaeological excavations reveal that during the 1st century AD it was just outside the city walls.[32] In fact, we learn from Josephus that this site was not enclosed within the walls until Herod Agrippa did so between AD 41-44, less than ten years after Jesus was crucified.[33] This is important because Jesus was crucified just outside the city walls, and the tomb he was buried in was nearby (Jn 19:20). Neither Constantine nor the Christians living in Jerusalem in the 4th century could not have known that the site they identified as Jesus’ tomb was outside the city walls in the first century AD, nor that the site was once a garden (Jn 19:41). Only an accurate preservation of the memory of Jesus’ burial site could account for this.[34] While it cannot be known for certain whether this was the precise tomb Jesus was buried in, the tomb in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is more likely than the Garden Tomb to be the tomb of Jesus.
[1]Jodi Magness, “What Did Jesus’ Tomb Look Like?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[2]Jodi Magness, “What Did Jesus’ Tomb Look Like?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[3]Jodi Magness, “What Did Jesus’ Tomb Look Like?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[4]Jodi Magness, “What Did Jesus’ Tomb Look Like?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[5]Jodi Magness, “What Did Jesus’ Tomb Look Like?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[6]Jodi Magness, “What Did Jesus’ Tomb Look Like?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[7]Jodi Magness, “What Did Jesus’ Tomb Look Like?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[8]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[9]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[10]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[11]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[12]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[13]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[14]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[15]John simply speaks of the stone having been “removed” from the entrance.
[16]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[17]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[18]Amos Kloner, “Did a Rolling Stone Close Jesus’ Tomb?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[19]Gabriel Barkay, “The Garden Tomb: Was Jesus Buried Here?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[20]Gabriel Barkay, “The Garden Tomb: Was Jesus Buried Here?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[21]Gabriel Barkay, “The Garden Tomb: Was Jesus Buried Here?” in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[22]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[23]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[24]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[25]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[26]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[27]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[28]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[29]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[30]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[31]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[32]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[33]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
[34]Dan Bahat, “Does the Holy Sepulchre Church Mark the Burial of Jesus? in The Burial of Jesus, Biblical Archaeology Society, Kathleen E. Miller et al, ed., 2007.
Thinking to Believe 
October 10, 2011 at 10:18 am
[…] the former post I mentioned The Burial of Jesus, a collection of essays published by the Biblical Archaeology […]
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July 20, 2015 at 4:37 pm
That “great [mega gk.] stone…” Matthew writes about that was in front of the door of the tomb and will not allow for a ‘stopper stone’ must be accounted for.
Mark, who the scholar Swete says had an ‘eye for great detail’ says in Greek “…the stone, it was indeed[gar] great extremely so [spodra-immense-enormous gk.].” Mk.16.:3 b
Mark was aware of the type and size of the stones that were before the tombs at that time; but he makes it a special point to say this stone was’ indeed [gar adverb gk indeed], huge or gigantic’ as we would say today ‘to the max!’
I have assiduously studied Greek since 1963 and I can easily see from the Greek this was an immense stone far,far larger than what was used as placement rolling stones as well as much smaller ‘plug’ stones in the door of tombs at that time.
Our detail man inspired Mark wrote “who will roll away for us the stone…”
The Greek word roll is from hilisso-to coil, roll together from kookloth circle, around or circularity. It is abundantly and very clear from Greek “roll” here(Mk.16:3 a) means just that to ‘roll a round or circular object!’
The large round mega! stone that was found(see video above link) fits perfectly in the track of the tomb at the famous garden tomb.
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July 20, 2015 at 6:49 pm
Dr H.Davis:
This is such a meaningless and useless video documentary which makes it easy to exclaim: So What!
Whether the stone IS THE stone or some other stone that was rolled to cover a tomb entrance has no value and proves nothing. What is the point of having the stone or having another stone. What’s the point? To make money? More likely than not.
Belief is so useless.
Angels are always used to explain what common sense cannot explain and in the days of old, as still today in religious circles, superstition and supernaturalism was considerably more useful to the clergy than common sense.
No angel rolled the stone from Joseph’s tomb; the stone was designed to roll away at a predetermined hour; it was created to roll away; it was designed that way. Man oh man what a useless piece of meaningless nonsense this video is; it provides no education, no revelation, no philosophical insight; it merely offers a reflection of what the whole world is constantly bombarded by: speculation, hypothesis, maybe, I suppose, I think theories that even if it proved true would not advance knowledge, or civilization one single millimeter.
I mean, if the stone made any difference to anybody on the planet except a Peter Popoff charlatan carnival barker selling miracle water in ketchup packages to generate revenue from gullible believers, it would make absolutely no sense otherwise.
But please let me tell you that Jesus hates liars, fabricators, conspiracists, psychics, false messengers, prophets, miracle workers, mediums claiming communication with familiar spirits passed, religious healers, ritualism, sacrifices pseudo or real, offerings, speaking in tongues, deceivers, exorcists and those using time-honored sanctified names in vain for their own personal, monetary and material gain.
If you “believe” in Jesus you are on the wrong track already; if you “know” Jesus you are closer to truth and understand exactly what I have said. Jesus is nopt somebody to “bel;ieve’ in; Jesus is someone you need to “know”!
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July 20, 2015 at 7:10 pm
http://www.thegardentombandthegreatstone.com/ Hello! This is an interesting site. They are dedicated believers in Jesus Christ. I read and analyze everything. I was born again October 13, 1961. I also do not accept the list you wrote of religionists who are just that and not of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Now as you your comments. I showed you that the original stone was not only round thus refuting some scholars, but that it was ‘extremely large’ unlike stones found thus far that were employed for tomb entrance covers. From Greek that stone was gigantic!Also, that’s why Mark used gar which I translate, ‘indeed, it was a massive stone. ‘ You should watch/read carefully this treatise on the tomb of Christ. They are trying to verify certain aspects of the tomb Account is all. Agree or not I find it of interest.Howard From: Theo-sophical Ruminations To: projectt333@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 6:49 PM Subject: [New comment] The Tomb of Jesus #yiv3866052508 a:hover {color:red;}#yiv3866052508 a {text-decoration:none;color:#0088cc;}#yiv3866052508 a.yiv3866052508primaryactionlink:link, #yiv3866052508 a.yiv3866052508primaryactionlink:visited {background-color:#2585B2;color:#fff;}#yiv3866052508 a.yiv3866052508primaryactionlink:hover, #yiv3866052508 a.yiv3866052508primaryactionlink:active {background-color:#11729E;color:#fff;}#yiv3866052508 WordPress.com The Take Away commented: “Dr H.Davis:This is such a meaningless and useless video documentary which makes it easy to exclaim: So What!Whether the stone IS THE stone or some other stone that was rolled to cover a tomb entrance has no value and proves nothing. What is the po” | |
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July 20, 2015 at 7:37 pm
Howard Davis:
Burial procedures:
All the stones were round and as large as required to cover the entrance to the tombs in Jesus’ day…Normal.
All tomb stones were set before the entrance and tracks dug, shovelled, (grooved) so that when the stone was pushed to enclose the tomb along the entrenched (dugout track) the stone sunk into the dug-out trench and where it fell, there it lay. It would take a trolled and lodged into the grooved(dug-out, shovelled) track(trench)(ditch). Normal
It doesn’t matter that Joseph’s Stone and Tomb were larger than usual….riches determined size then as it does today and Joseph was reputed to be among the wealthiest men in town., along with Nicodemus, I hasten to add. Normal
Whether one finds the tomb or the stone, the point is that the stone rolled away as planned, the tomb was empty as planned and Jesus was missing as planned.
Now if you want to speculate you need to speculate not on whther you found the stone or the tomb but how was the stone rolled away by itself, why and how was the tomb was empty and when Jesus appeared to the group, it was not in spirit but in fact it was his actual body, still in the healing process from the trauma he recently experienced and said this:
“Jesus appeared to them and said, “Peace be with you.” They thought they were seeing a ghost and were scared half to death. He continued with them, “Don’t be upset, and don’t let all these doubting questions take over. Look at my hands; look at my feet—it’s really me. Touch me. Look me over from head to toe. A ghost doesn’t have muscle and bone like this.” As he said this, he showed them his hands and feet. They still couldn’t believe what they were seeing. It was too much; it seemed too good to be true.
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Feel Me and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
There were no bones in the tomb.
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July 20, 2015 at 7:42 pm
It would take a team of oxen to pull the stone from its entenched position, once rolled and lodged into the grooved track. Unless one smartly engineered to do otherwise. OMG I have known for years, the smartly engineered way Joseph accomplished that amazing feat.
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July 20, 2015 at 9:22 pm
Meant to say I Do accept the list you gave !Sent from Yahoo Ma
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July 21, 2015 at 3:32 pm
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/temple-at-jerusalem/the-stones-of-herod%E2%80%99s-temple-reveal-temple-mount-history/
There were many techniques the ancient people used to move, say, a large stone such as the tomb door cover stone mentioned in the Gospels which Mark 16:3 b says was ‘indeed gigantic(Greek words).’ Sometimes it was a ‘team of oxen’ as I have read with ‘various types of devices’ on which the stone would lay. Took time, yes, but they had lots of that! For the tomb of Joseph we know it had a massive stone as per Matthew and Mark with Mark the detail master saying it was’ indeed [gar Gk.indeed it certainly was a large stone]a huge stone.’ The width of the track for the stone- if the famous garden tomb be accepted or at least as a possible place for Jesus’ burial -was over 15 inches wide!
As to roads to move the stone there are numerous maps of ancient Israel I have looked at and there were many roads some known that have survived even today. Some had disappeared only to be excavated in recent times.
This means the stone(which fits the track at the tomb-even chemical analysis indicated it is from the same rock that the tomb was crafted from!) that was found at a monastery is some 25 miles away from the garden tomb. Many gigantic stones were carried and towed by oxen much farther in ancient times!
The only thing that could have been removed if the tomb area was in danger from invaders (Muslims?) or destruction (or any other kind of situation-this kind of thing has happened many times in history that a large or small artifact was moved many miles say to protect it, etc.) would be the roll stone for the tomb’s door.
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July 21, 2015 at 3:35 pm
Roads and more roads!!! https://www.google.com/search?q=roads+in+ancient+israel&biw=1280&bih=607&tbm=isch&imgil=1MB48vI8afA2_M%253A%253B3mnICK8VpeAdlM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.biblewalks.com%25252Finfo%25252FRomanRoads.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=1MB48vI8afA2_M%253A%252C3mnICK8VpeAdlM%252C_&usg=__roR-n5wfof3ltJ9wUNV8EMIc2vA%3D&ved=0CDIQyjdqFQoTCI6Cjd2j7cYCFc-iiAodqjMIJw&ei=jMiuVY6MJM_FogSq56C4Ag#imgrc=1MB48vI8afA2_M%3A&usg=__roR-n5wfof3ltJ9wUNV8EMIc2vA%3D
To take that large round stone on a road would not be a problem-just time and sweat. You hired strong men who did such work too.
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July 21, 2015 at 4:01 pm
Jesus after he rose from the dead- as predicted -was not ‘recovering from his trauma and wounds! He was on the road to Emmaus with two disciples who didn’t know who he was as it was ‘withheld’ from them supernaturally. After He eventfully was eating with them and they suddenly recognized him He instantly in a flash disappeared! In the Greek the words used, including the construction was apantos to ‘instantly disappear.’ This was a supernatural act as He had his ‘glorified’ body when He rose from the dead, and scripture is clear on this fact.note He instantly stood in the room (verse 36)which was locked! See Luke 24:13-45 ;cf John 20:26 room locked;l Corinthians 15:1-58
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July 21, 2015 at 4:18 pm
It was speculated above in this thread that the garden tomb is most likely not the tomb of Jesus. So I added my rebuttal is all. The money, scholars and backing is with the other named site. After reading after ‘scholars over the years I do not believe their words are inspired or set in stone -not a pun!
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July 21, 2015 at 5:58 pm
How does one enter a room through a locked door? With a key of course or by another passageway perhaps even a secret passageway known only to Jesus who was a trusted friend of the owner of the safe house where they secretly met and where they also had the last supper. But you are mixing scriptures up; Luke doesn’t mention anything about a locked door. John says “…..the doors were shut…..”Just that while they were there Jesus stood in the midst of them which is simple enough when someone enters a party group one stands in the midst of them, nothing supernatural about that. Harold, you are too quick with your superstition, they didn’t recognize the stranger for two reasons, one their eyes were cast downward because they were sad and the other because it was evening after sunset and they’re walk of 4 hours ends in darkness; they actually invited the stranger to stay with them because the day was well spent.So it was the next day most likely after they thought about the stranger they surmised that maybe it was Jesus. They ahd already reached home well into the night so it is reasonavle that they would not hit the road again and walk another four hours and find the group.
And as far as Jesius having a glorified body that he could easily appear and disappear like Houdini magic, similar to Christian magic, is ridiculous, for it was Jesus himself who appeared alive, not dead, but alive; said to the group when he appeared in their midst: They thought they saw a ghost! And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.
What glorified body did he have? He had the same body as he had before he was traumatized by the abuse he endured.
You will never understand the bible or anything about Jesus if you persist in describing the Jesus events as if they were common paranormal out of Hollywood. lol
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July 21, 2015 at 6:59 pm
You have not answered my post reference- in detail- to Paul’s detailed comments about a resurrected body in ALL of l Corinthians 15 as I gave.
See verses 42-44 ;in 44 it says, “It [the physical body]is sown a natural body, it is RAISED[Jesus was raised from the dead ] a SPRITUAL BODY.”
Luke says clearly in Greek Jesus “vanished” before their eyes.You do not understand Greek and Hebrew which takes years of hard study to master. You are an English Bible student. I give up there.
And you will never understand these things. I understand that. The Bible says a supernatural God created all that is-an immense miracle.
Gensis1:1 ;John 1:1;Hebrews 1:2-3;Colossians 1 :15-17.
“The natural man does NOT receive the things of the Spirit of God ,for they are foolishness to him;…” Being in a resurrected glorified body is ‘foolish’ to you- the ‘natural man’ who can’t understand miracles, etc. You are a materialist. l Corinthians 2:10-16
You need to be born again- you need to be saved.
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July 21, 2015 at 10:29 pm
The argument that Jesus ate food after his reserection is proof that he wasn’t in a spiritual body in spite of the fact Paul says so and that he was in a physical state doesn’t hold up as people eat of the tree of life in heaven and the hidden manna. revelation 21 …22
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July 21, 2015 at 10:59 pm
Miracles are not understandable, that’s why they’re called miracles. However miracles are also considered to be the first inclination of the believer because they have been indoctrinated in superstition and the supernatural usually from young children if not from birth.
Go to exodus and you can easily see that the first miracle God told Moses to perform, (not God, mind you, but the priests or Holy person fulfilling the role as he or the establishment determined must be fulfilled by a man acting out the God role.
So Moses was told by this self appointed intermediary(God speaking of course) that when Pharaoh asks for a miracle to “prove” the power of Moses’ God then cast down the staff etc etc turning it into a snake. So the reality of Moses’ miracle was merely a magic trick that was easily replicated by Pharoah’s court magicians thus rendering miracles as an obtuse religious term that means nothing except a magic trick, pseudo psychological placebos practiced incessantly in Christian circles by the likes of scoundrel carnival barkers such as Peter Popoff; or, events of common sense that Jesus, for example, was able to perform that shocked the people who themselves were inclined first to supersition and the supernatural before common sense, being totally brainwashed by theologians who are experts in the unknowable and the deceit of paranormal speak.
When the natural man writes a message that the natural man cannot understand miracles, he must necessarily talk about himself so how then can a natural man understand anything he is talking about? He cannot. It’s merely religious-speak, church-speak, clergy-speak, dogma-speak and I don’t accept a word of it.
Jesus never performed a miracle and everything he ever did is easily explained by common sense.
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July 22, 2015 at 3:52 pm
Now to refute the locked door ‘Jesus had a key’ nonsense from English Bible theology.
John 20:19 from Greek says,” …and of the doors HAVING BEEN LOCKED…came Jesus and stood in the midst…”
Now it uses the perfect tense for the ‘doors locked’ so “doors having been locked” minus Jesus. Perfect tense means a past completed action having present permanent results. When Jesus cried out “It is finished ” it is perfect tense- a past completed action having present permanent results. Nothing more could be done. Zero.
When they ‘ having locked the doors’ -perfect tense- they WERE LOCKED AND REMAINED LOCKED. No on ever opened those doors when Jesus entered!!! In spiritual body one can go through walls. ‘Matter is energy slowed down to the point of visibility- and energy is matter speeded up to the point of invisibility’ says Dr. Einstein. Further his equation says, ‘they are both incontrovertible and interchangeable.’ So one in a spiritual or energy body can and is vibrating at such a high frequency or vibration it can pass through matter or in this case walls/doors.
When they entered this place they locked(a past completed action) the doors for ‘fear the Jews’ would arrest them or worse!
They stayed locked- perfect tense. But, even though all was’ having been locked’ up Jesus came right into the room to their shock!
Now for present tense. John 20:17 After Mary realized it was Jesus she immediately began clinging(Greek) to his feet. The Greek says hugging tightly, and firmly.
Then the Master says, ‘…cease clinging on to me for I have not yet -at this point -ascended to the Father.’ He tells her to tell his disciples that he is ascending(present tense). This means he at that time present tense or now was in the act of ascending to the Father and that he was see his brothers later.
He could not ascend to heaven right then as our present tense shows us in a natural physical body!!! He had to have his ‘spiritual body’ as per the apostle Paul l Corinthians 15.
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July 22, 2015 at 4:21 pm
Sorry but you’re mixed up. What you describe is called science fiction; anything then goes.
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July 22, 2015 at 4:25 pm
And Acts 1:9 He was lifted up Greek into heaven . He had to have had a spiritual body to ascend right in front of them all as Paul said ‘flesh and blood (the physical body) can’t enter the kingdom of heaven.’
We are told Enoch did not die but was taken up* into heaven. Genesis 5:24 ;confirmed in Hebrews 11:5.**
Heb.: to take away; carry away; seize; to remove and transport away; from a wd. means gather up. It says Enoch did NOT see or experience death, hence, he had to have had a spiritual body to go into heaven- same for Elijah.
ll Kings 2:1-14
** Greek: to transport away; to transfer; carry over; change sides(from earth to heaven.
It says people looked or ‘searched’ for Enoch but they that he couldn’t be ‘found.’ Heb.11:5
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July 22, 2015 at 4:41 pm
you use that little catch all ‘science fiction.’ that settles it you are the great prophet you know all things even above the Son of God and His Holy Word!!!When you read the Bible ‘anything goes,’ yes, because God can do anything he is omnipotent. You are an materialists or unbeliever masquerading as a believer, but you lack the spirit.
Paul rightly says about you.’ For the natural man receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness(we get our word ‘moronic’ form this word in Gk.) to him.’
Why do you even delve into Bible -you need to go teach math or something that in your matter obsessed mind is material and verifiable with your 5 senses. Stay away and stop deceiving people.
You will end up here: Revelation 20:11-15 saying this is ‘science fiction,’ but it will be too late!
“It is appointed for man once to die and after this the Judgment. ” Heb. 9:27
“For every even idle word that men shall speak they will have to give a detailed account of them at the judgment” said Jesus.
‘Everything you have ever thought ,said or DONE will be brought out and judged.’
You HAD BETTER ‘ prepare to meet your Maker.’ You aren’t going to live on this earth forever.
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July 22, 2015 at 4:58 pm
You in prophecy!: ll Corinthians 11:13-15; l Timothy 4:1-2: ll Tim.3:13;1-4;
ll Peter 2: 1-22 ;l John 2:18-25 ; ll John vs.7-11: Jude — all you.
Rev.21:8
You are in grave eternal danger and laugh all you want mr. ‘science fiction’ ,but you need to repent!
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July 22, 2015 at 5:31 pm
Dr H Davis:
You are a master of the unknowable.
You make mountains out of molehills where not even molehills exist.
What’s the difference if the doors were locked, closed or shut? This is as meaningless as finding the true stone that covered the true tomb that housed the true body of the true Jesus.
The first English Translation was done by John Wycliff Jn 20: 19 Therefore when it was even in that day [Therefore when eventide was in that day], [in] one of the sabbaths, and the gates were shut, where the disciples were gathered, for dread of the Jews, Jesus came, and stood in the middle of the disciples, and he saith to them, Peace to you [and said to them, Peace be to you].
And how did Jesus get in? he walked through the door way when it was opened; otherwise, the door was pointless to your theory and made no difference to your hollywood science fiction; he could have walked through the wall or came up from the floor or down through the roof or like Santa down the chimney!
The fact that Jesus came through the doorway was the simplicity of entering and standing in the midst of them, that’s what shocked them, that it was Jesus who came in, they weren’t shocked that Jesus walked through the door that was not open because that never happened. But when they saw him they thought he was a ghost.
And you say “So one in a spiritual or energy body can and is vibrating at such a high frequency or vibration it can pass through matter or in this case walls/doors.”
Now just to point out your fiction, in the Luke version of the assembly meeting, the exact same assembly when Jesus said “feel me, touch me and see it is me, flesh and muscle and bone which a spirit does not have. 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
So Jesus himself refutes your science fiction account which never happened no matter how many times you say it. Jesus said he was not spirit and you contradict Jesus” word and say Jesus was wrong and you say that Jesus was energy and walked through the door while it was shut, closed or locked.
Don’t you realize that you are contradicting Jesus himself, but in his own words he is telling everybody that what you are saying about him is utter nonsense, incorrect, inaccurate, untrue and down on the farm caca del toro; AKA, (BS) You are taking Jesus name for your own untrue story, you’re not suppose to do that
NOw you seem to think that because you study the Greek text to arrive at the truth about the bible but knowing the bible textually is as useless in Greek to 99 percent(metaphorically speaking) as it is to the englis text.
Now you see, we’re without excuse because the Lord Jesus deliberately chose to sanctify himself, so that we in him would know the truth whereby we too may be sanctified. Sanctify them through thy word, they word is truth; in other words, God’s word contains a principle; it’s a principle to live by. I don’t mean pretty little bible stories that you simply know, textually, so that you can tell the story of Daniel and the lion’s den; or, David and Goliath, all part of God’s inspired word but you see if you just memorize bible stories or for that matter memorize bible verses but you don’t understand the truth, the principle that God is communicating, then you might just as well recite three blind mice and this is the tragedy with countless evangelical, born again believers, they have a bible that they’ve come to know textually but they’ve never learned the truth!
I have stated this before and it’s worth repeating to you now.
If I were to come to your home and found you reading a book, and it’s my first visit to your home I probably wouldn’t be discourteous and ask you what the book you were reading. I’d just notice you were reading a book. And you’d look up maybe and engage in conversation. But next time I visit you, you’re still reading the same book. Maybe even on that occasion I don’t happen to mention it but I notice it’s the same book. And I come again and you’re still reading that book, and every time I come you’re still reading the same book; well finally, I’d pluck up enough courage and say that book must be very fascinating.
“Oh yes you see, I get up at six o’clock every morning; I get up and I read several chapters; as a matter of fact I’ve analyzed several chapters.”
“Well”, I’d say, “it must be very, very intriguing and….”
“Oh it is”, you’d say; “as a matter of fact I’ve set several verses to music, I bought a guitar and I sing it”.
“Well great”,
“As a matter of fact I’m training a choir”.
“Well fine. What is the book”?
“Why, it’s the manual on my new car. And you see, we’re going to sing at the next motor show”.
“Well great. Tell me about the car. Tremendous acceleration? Great braking power? Rides smoothly over all the bumps?”
“Uh uh”, you might say, “I really don’t know. Because you see it’s in the garage; I’ve never been for a ride”.
Well wouldn’t that be an exercise in stupidity? To analyze a book, read it every morning, sing it, set it to music, memorize it, and never go for a ride.
There are countless converted men and women who can say I made my decision for Jesus. And now they read the bible, memorize some verses, set it to music, buy a guitar, train choirs but quite frankly, never been for a ride. This was like the Scribes and the Pharisees. The Lord Jesus said to them: “You search the scriptures.” In the original it’s the imperative. Or rather it’s a categorical statement of fact, not just the imperative. He didn’t say “search the scriptures”, he said, “You search the scriptures” because he knew they did. This was their stock in trade; this was their text book.
“You search the scriptures; in them you think you have eternal life.”
There’s no eternal life to be found in the bible. I believe the bible from cover to cover, I believe it to be divinely inspired, I believe it is authored by the holy ghost. But there’s no eternal life to be found in the bible. Said the Lord Jesus:
“These scriptures are they that testify of me and you will not come to me that you might have life.” So you’ve got a bible you study and you flatter yourself on your biblical scholarship. You derive from it your theological and philosophical propositions but you examine that book without any revelation of the one who authored it and you fail to recognize the one of whom it testifies and because you will not come to me, that in me you might have that life that only I can give you, you’ve got a dead bible and a dead religion and it won’t be long before you have a dead Christ because you see if you study the bible long enough without coming to the one of whom it speaks you’ll crucify him. And then you’ll say,
“We buried him in our generation”.
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July 23, 2015 at 5:40 pm
https://carm.org/jesus-resurrection-was-physical
You are a first class heretic! So close yet so far!
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July 23, 2015 at 5:52 pm
l John 2:25 ” And this is the PROMISE that He[Jesus]has promised us-ETERNAL life.”
“For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in Him will have EVERLASTING LIFE.”
Jn.3:16
“And this is the TESTIMONY :that God has GIVEN US ETERNAL LIFE ,and this life is in His son.” l Jn.5:11; c.f. v.13,etc.
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July 23, 2015 at 6:02 pm
So laughable from someone who contradicts the words of Jesus. You might know the bible textually, most peope do, but you’ve never been for a ride.
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July 23, 2015 at 8:08 pm
H. Davis: Your first lesson about “Heresy”.
HERESY:
A basic definition of heresy, according to Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, is “adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma.
”A second definition is “dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice.” That’s a good starting point for us.
These definitions identify two key elements: a dominant position and a contrary position.
With regards to religion, any belief or practice that goes against the official position of the church is considered heretical.
Heretic does not appear in the Old Testament and only a few times in NT by the early church opinionators like Peter but again it’s only an opinion about someone who disagrees with your opinion and has a different opinion than church tradition.
Never worry about someone calling you a heretic; it’s merely a Church threat; a non sequitur. Jesus would have been accused of being a heretic many times as he constantly went against prevailing church tradition.
In fact Jesus was called a blasphemer because he told the religious authorities the meaning behind the text. The Scribes and Pharisees, like you, knew the prevailing church opinion, church dogma, textually, but never understood the truth; they never went for a ride and were offended by Jesus telling them what they themselves claimed to understand textually, and did not.
I understand your frustration, me telling you the truth, like Jesus. Even the disciples of Jesus complained about his interpretation of the bible having been previously schooled by the Scribes and Pharisees in the standing church tradition of the day. Remember the event? You’ll find it in:
John 6: These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum. “…….As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds (listens, harkens, heeds) on Me, will live because of Me…….Many of his disciples said ‘This is a hard saying, who can stand to hear it?’ Jesus said to them: ‘Does this offend you?’ ……From that time many disciples went back and talked (walked) with Him no more.”
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July 24, 2015 at 3:18 pm
You are dead wrong as usual. http://www.christiandefense.org/oneness_c.hstoy.htm Just like your heretical Oneness doctrine fostered by those woefully ignorant in the original languages in which scripture was written.
How well the Apostle Paul wrote of men like you(and predicted “many” would follow them) that have a ‘bend’ in their minds( Gk.). You get it right then you ‘bend’ it to fit the way you think it should be. ‘Heresy’ is going against the words of scripture-not a church!
I remember the “event ” well (John 6 ) which you DID NOT quote : “l say to you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood HAS eternal life [unless you believe like you do!] ,and I will raise him up at the last day.
For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.” Jn.6:53-56. cf. pretext v.52
This is what offended those Jews those words (which you omitted to prove your own distorted spin) ‘eating my flesh and drinking my blood’ even shocked his own Jewish disciples’ sensibilities. Only later as they matured in their faith did they understand those words.
No-not me- you are the ‘Scribe/Pharisee’ as they didn’t have compassion, but Jesus did and ‘instantly’ as the Greek says healed ‘all who came to Him.’ They didn’t like those miracles like you and plotted to kill such a work of love. You hate miracles, but they were to heal the, deaf, dumb, crippled, the dead, and blind people and to confirm Jesus’ claims, etc. Mark 1:33; 39-42; 2:3-5;11-12 Hebrew 4:12
Micah7:15 same one who predicted the exact city the Messiah would be born in predicted God would do signs or miracles to them or the Jews. He indicated in the Hebrew it was to last 40 years. Jesus was baptized 30AD and the Romans destroyed Jerusalem 70 AD or 40 years. They rejected the kingdom and claims of Jesus being the long awaited Messiah.
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July 24, 2015 at 3:40 pm
Here’s the miracles you promote, nothing but magic tricks, sleight of hand or common sense that seems likea miracle such as feeding the thousands which nobody except the military were able to organize and perform:
8Now the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, Exodus 7: 8-12 “When Pharaoh speaks to you, saying, ‘Work a miracle,’ then you shall say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh, that it may become a serpent.'” 10So Moses and Aaron came to Pharaoh, and thus they did just as the LORD had commanded; and Aaron threw his staff down before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a serpent.…”
11 But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. 12 For every man threw down his rod, and they became serpents.
Heresy is going against church opinion or church dogma; it has nothing to do with scripture, only the interpretation of scripture which as I said earlier Jesus was a heretic everytime he interpreted scripture.
You wouldn’t know Jesus if you tripped over me, I’m afraid. You’re old school, so old, in fact, you perpetuate the deceitful fraud of the Scribes and Pharisees from the School of Stoneagism. All you have done is carry over the supernatural nonsense of the Old Testament into the New Testament but Jesus debunked the supernaturalism of the OT; you just can’t see it. The blind will remain blind still. Matt 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.”
Oh well speaking the words of Jesus, the truth of Jesus and yet you are so dull of hearing: so this is your fate from the Man himself :
John 12:46-48
I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the words that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.”
You abide in darkness.
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July 27, 2015 at 9:18 pm
The Son outwardly and the Father inwardly are one; IT’S LIKE WE CAN’T GO ANYWHERE WITHOUT EACH OTHER.
If you can’t understand this “God within” concept, you will always be at a disadvantage in knowing the real Jesus. And you will never understand the Trinity concept.
Here’s another way to look at it. The Father is like the immune system: ready, able and willing to combat any intruder; it is simply there for the son’s protection; but the son invents aspirin, antibiotics, surgery and other medicinal aids that augment the Father’s work.
Remember some things are in metaphor, parables…..Don’t please be mislead by the text. Sometimes it’s simple and sometimes it’s not so simple— if you have discernment it’s all as easy as apple pie. Jesus loved apple pie.
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March 24, 2016 at 2:29 am
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